Best resources to learn more about Arch?

Posted by Rambler in Linux

I've decided to take Artix (mate, openrc) for a spin. Right now I'm just updating syncing system packages with sudo pacman -Syyu but the entire Arch ecosystem is new to me. Most my experience has been with Debian and Debian based OS'es for desktop and servers and some RHEL/CentOS limited use stuff some years ago.

Arch? Completely and entirely new to me.

Is there a crash course somewhere? A cheat sheet? Something that says,

"On Debian you do this-thing on Arch you do this-instead ?"

Good tips for a systemd-less OS?

Currently just running in a VM ontop of my normal desktop but I may be willing to switch to it full time if I like it.

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J0yI9YUX41Wx wrote

May I humbly suggest pacman -Syu rather than doubling up the y? Here's a forum post about yy: Arch Forum Post (clear net).

It's ironic. Over the last 10 years or so, I've switched from the Ubuntu-based Linux Mint to Arch, and I used Debian for many years prior. Yet, I really can't think of any specific tips. The Arch Wiki is first class, and I just refer to that whenever attempting something new. Honestly, I switched to Arch simply because the Wiki was so good.

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nobody wrote

Yes. The reason I switched to Arch many years ago was to get rid of all that wrappers of wrappers which are used in Debian since long time ago.

Read man pacman and that is the most Arch that can run into your way (not counting systemd, which is not Arch's fault, but the fact they switched to it in 2012 was their decision — so some have switched from Arch as well).

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Wahaha wrote

On Arch there's a whole lot of reading the manual to figure things out. But the manuals are actually worthwhile reads, so there's that.

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Rambler OP wrote

Looks like people hold a very strong opinion on systemd.

It's all I know, so I'm going to experiment with alternatives for now.

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spc50 wrote

(popcorn)

Ya'all are too damn bright to go the ad hominem attack route.

Just saying. Merits to both sides and reason to have distros with and without certain things.

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nobody wrote

DON'T PANIC

systemd-less OS is possible. One such example is Alpine Linux. I would even recommend going one step further and learn about daemontools (made by DJB) and in turn to have a look at runsvdir which is part of busybox and is kind of reimplementation of the original idea.

Once you get to live systemd-less, you will realize how easy it is to tame any distro. Even Debian or Ubuntu work very nicely without systemd.

Bock to the roots! All the best!

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smartypants wrote (edited )

systemd is eventually going to be all 100% of serious linux unix mac (partly in concept) osses

Good tips for a systemd-less OS?

Even your arch linux added systemd in 2012 nine years ago , and its default : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd

systemd was correctly promoted then spread to many osses for 100 great technical reasons.

WATCH every minute of this extremely famous video on systemd (speed it up to 1.25% if you want faster pacing) :

https://v2.incogtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

47 minutes of truth bombs from linux.conf.au

systemd is AWESOME and the future

Already it took over most operating systems. Proof:

Arch Linux - October 2012 switched to Systemd
CentOS - July 2014 switched to Systemd
CoreOS - October 2013 switched to Systemd
Debian - April 2015 switched to Systemd
Fedora - May 2011 switched to Systemd
Linux Mint - June 2016 (v18.0) switched to Systemd
Mageia - May 2012 switched to Systemd
Manjaro Linux - Nov 2013 switched to Systemd
openSUSE - September 2012 switched to Systemd
Red Hat Enterprise Linux - June 2014 (v7.0) switched to Systemd
Solus switched to Systemd
SUSE Linux Enterprise Server - October 2014 switched to Systemd
Ubuntu - April 2013 (v13.04) soon mandatory

Anyone that is not happy with the future of OSses and faster booting and hates systemd typically is uneducated on systemd and never watched this 700,000 view youtube video.

anti systemd people in 2021 are laughed at behind their backs by skilled engineers and people who watched ALL of that video :

https://v2.incogtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

2012 short pamphlet : Arch Linux Environment set-up How-To
https://b-ok.cc/book/2286634/56b8eb

2009 167 pages : Arch Linux Handbook: A Simple, Lightweight Linux Handbook
https://b-ok.cc/book/730238/7581a5

neither are modern arch info, so i guess you need to use online stuff

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Wahaha wrote (edited )

No, soystemd sucks.

To learn more: https://nosystemd.org/

http://suckless.org/sucks/systemd/

https://web.archive.org/web/20180830062825/http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

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boobs wrote

systemd is objectively a better alternative to things like sysinitv openrc and runit. service managers in the form of interpreted scripts are and will continue to be an irredeemable clusterfuck. the "anti systemd people" fail to see this as they are in a cult.

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Wahaha wrote

Not as much of a clusterfuck as systemd is, though.

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smartypants wrote

I can tell you are not an engineer AND that you did NOT watch that video that 700,000 people watched.

Systemd won, and all linux switching to it.

Only low IQ fools tried to stop its complete take over.

I do not need to look at your links, because all the operating systems and all the educated people sanely switched over.

WATCH THE GODDAMNED VIDEO i linked to. watch it all.

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Wahaha wrote (edited )

Hurr, durr, trust the scientists.

https://ramble.pw/f/funny/2583/i-m-a-scientist-you-can-trust-me

Systemd is bloat. That's what it is.

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smartypants wrote

I can still tell you are not an engineer and also did not watch my video link.

All the linux world now has finally switched to systemd!

Systemd nearly default everywhere!:

  • Arch Linux - October 2012 switched to Systemd
  • CentOS - July 2014 switched to Systemd
  • CoreOS - October 2013 switched to Systemd
  • Debian - April 2015 switched to Systemd
  • Fedora - May 2011 switched to Systemd
  • Linux Mint - June 2016 (v18.0) switched to Systemd
  • Mageia - May 2012 switched to Systemd
  • Manjaro Linux - Nov 2013 switched to Systemd
  • openSUSE - September 2012 switched to Systemd
  • Red Hat Enterprise Linux - June 2014 (v7.0) switched to Systemd
  • Solus switched to Systemd
  • SUSE Linux Enterprise Server - October 2014 switched to Systemd
  • Ubuntu - April 2013 (v13.04) soon mandatory
  • Apple (launchd, the thing systemd copied)

Hurray for progress!

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Wahaha wrote

It's still bloated as fuck and avoidable.

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smartypants wrote (edited )

Not bloated at all.

In fact Steve Jobs put the entire MASSIVE Macintosh Operating System (OS X) and much of its gui libraries on the first 2008 iPhone.

People claimed (almost 99% of computer experts) that the iPhone would never sell even 2 million phones, and the giant huge OS (vastly larger than android OS) was insane to put in a Phone..

Steve Jobs merely responded... "You are wrong. No Compromises. Technology will keep up and its the FUTURE we are building for. The FUTURE"

APPLE over 2 TRILLION DOLLAR MARKET CAP from its "Bloat" ! Proof tonight!

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AAPL/

See? Market cap of all Stock over 2 Trillion dollars, and the biggest stock holder is Apple, followed by lucky Warren Buffet (5.04% as of last week).

2 Trillion from using Systemd (Launchd)

avoiding the future will never be a wise strategy in technology world.

98% of all running lunix desktops and servers now use awesome systemd.... for 100 great technical reasons. All 100 together are called bloat by you, and thats just crazy. If it had 49,000 new technologies, it might be bloat, but 100 new technologies to modernize Linux and keep up with Apple, is NOT BLOAT.

Apple did not tell Linux to copy its open source designs and put them into Linux... Linux distros all wisely took Apple Systemd (Launchd) and ported it to all the linux distributions used (98% in volume surveys).

Hurray for Systemd! It Won!

I do admit apple currentloy did NOT put its entire massive OS X (BSD unix) into the womans iWatch. The tiny iWatch needed space for autonomous cell phone chip , wifi, heart beat monitor, fall injury monitor (saved people plummeting off mountains already), auto 911 dialing, speaker voice monitoring, and links to nearby apple devices. No room in 2016 for all that. The Next iWatch may have the entire gigantic glorious 2 trillion dollar market cap operating system shoved into t the womans iWatch.

Apple iWatch has a built-in feature that calls emergency services when it detects its user has experienced a hard fall: https://people.com/human-interest/apple-watch-calls-for-help-man-falls-off-cliff/

iWatch to have entire massive gigantic macintosh OS and a working cell phone, all on a womans watch!

The final giant iWatch OS update for older watches, before going 100% iPhone OS in 2022 , internally has countless features in it including 24 hour Siri AI voice assistant even if no cell towers and no wifi and no blu tooth connection to another apple device :

https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/watchos-8-release-date-3800809/

Wow! All those things on a little watch!

3 Trillion market cap for Apple is their next Target (50% stock increase from now)

And Apple thanks Systemd (Launchd) for much of that current 2 trillion dollars.

In fact, 98% of the linux engineering experts now in 2021 lauch at the luddites and halfwits screeching against the glorious systemd with their emotions instead of facts.

The smear word "bloat" without logical argument, is laughed at the same way Steve jobs laughed when selling the iPhone in 2008 with entire giant mac operating system inside it.

NO COMPROMISES. Its not Bloat, its the FUTURE.

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Wahaha wrote

You can have that future and I'll take my future without the bloat that is systemd. It's the Linux way. Everyone can do what they want.

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BlackWinnerYoshi wrote

No, you're the one who's stupid. systemdestroy is used purely for big corpos to take over Linux, which is unacceptable if we want a free operating system. Please read arguments against systemd (clear net only) and stop trying to push us into using a thing that only does harm and endangers Linux. Really, you can live your entire life with SysV, for example. It doesn't try to harm you.

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smartypants wrote (edited )

nothing systemd does makes linusx less free, or corporate owned.

watch the video link i offered and learn something.

you sound deranged and not educated on why systemd won and is now in all linux.

your one dead link is practically a parody of itself based on emotion, not modern facts.

That archive of a dead site is a list of emotional screeching about bugs.

bugs long since patched.

it also includes "Unprofessionalism" as the reason.

Unprofessionalism?

What the ever loving fuck?

Did you even read that link? If so, tell me a reason all those operating systems made a mistake in switching to Apple's launchd (systemd).. i bet you cant find a logical reason that stands up.

Ignorance of fundamental operating system concepts?

laughable linked examples.

in fact the link does NOT cover RAID at all :

https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-February/028514.html

That example only discusses turning off journal control of a binary log file. And everything discussed is 100% factual by Lennart Poettering, but not the means or meachanisms entirely. For example a journalled atomic file system only protects VOLUME BITMAP and FILE SEGMENT SPANS and STATE OF FILE... not CONTENTS of data. FS_NOCOW on or off has no relevance on CONTENTS of a crashed log other than its possible new spans, and even then, those, if not flushed, would not be on disk anyways, and as Lennart Poettering stated... it uses its own sanity checksums to detect corrupt logs and to restart a missing log :

https://systemd-devel.freedesktop.narkive.com/lCPb8KVG/announce-systemd-219

Anyways that section has NOTHING to do with RAID.

Launchd/SYSTEMD won the battle, and is now 98% of all linux servers and desktops

98% of linux servers and desktops use the modern and wonderful launchd, and boot far faster as a side-effect.

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BlackWinnerYoshi wrote

Hmm yes, totally not a post showing that you're just an angry Linux fanboy trying to defend something that hurts you.

systemdestroy DOES make Linux less free because you're dealing with big corpo software, and it DOES make Linux owned by big corpo because init systems plays an important part to do anything.

No, I won't click the video to "learn". I'm not even going to talk about the fact that you didn't use Invidious as the proxy for NotYourTube.

Also, I'm educated, that's why I know the reason behind systemdestroy being the most used init system: it's because this is a big corpo software. It takes no effort for a big corpo to make something that becomes a dependency for 99% of things to then start harming it and therefore harming the things it has a dependency for.

Also, yes, that Without Systemd site is dead. However, there is an archival link from Wayback Machine, which, GUESS WHAT, allows archiving websites to cite them in future, even if the original site is long dead, so your "argument" doesn't make sense. Also, no, it's not written emotionally, the original author, whoever that was, written this wiki in good faith.

Also, you know, even if the bugs were fixed...

...there are other things that technically aren't bugs, but they still make your life inconvenient. Of course, you being a Linux fanboy, and probably even a freetard, makes you not notice those things, even though you should.

Also, unprofessionalism is actually a valid point; why would you say that the Journal File Format is stable since 26, but then take it back on version 44?

Doesn't it work like that?

Does it, freetard?

Yes, I did read that link. And yes, those launchd operating systems did make a mistake: switching to launchd, which is an init system owned by Apple, the big corpo. Seriously, every open source software owned by a big corpo has problems such as:

Kay Sievers and Lennart Poettering often have the same response style to criticisms as the GNOME developers [read other Red Hat developers] — go away, you’re clueless, we know better than you, and besides, we have commit privs and you don’t, so go away.

Not understanding computers 101?

Absolutely. I'm laughing at you.

Also, maybe that link doesn't mention RAID, but do you know what it mentions? Checksums.

systemd might have won by fucking our arses, however, me and other people that actually think will go against it by using and recommending Linux distributions that don't use systemd, such as Salix OS

Linux servers/desktops might use systemd, but the faster booting is just the placebo effect, which is caused by a disease you have: freetardism.

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