Wahaha OP wrote on March 12, 2021 at 12:37 PM

Reply to comment by awdrifter in The Worst Alphabet Book Ever™ by Wahaha

Not in my case. I didn't learn the language by translating what I would want to say in my first language, so I never noticed these irregularities while learning. I'd just read books and watch movies and translate English words I didn't know to my first language, which at first were all words.

So, I've got zero grammar knowledge in English. But it's fine. I've got zero grammar knowledge in my first language, too. I'm of the opinion that grammar will impede language learning. It took me about three months to half a year to learn English my way out of school, since I wanted to watch anime that happened to only have English subs. I'd have learned Japanese, but looking up Kanji is a major pain in the ass.

What I've instead got is a feel for the language, so even if I can't tell you the grammar rule, I'll notice mistakes. Like when someone uses shined instead of shone. Both words are correct, but used in different contexts. I couldn't tell you what the exact difference is, but if I see it wrongly used in a sentence, it just hurts my language feeling. Funnily enough, that doesn't happen when someone uses "of" instead of "have". I'll subconsciously read it correctly and don't notice that mistake at all.

awdrifter wrote on March 12, 2021 at 2:00 PM

At least initially, I learned English by teachers of my native language, so I would get the grammar explained in my native language. Now that I've been living in the US for so long, I'm used to just think in English without translation, but during the time when I was learning, I had to memorize all these irregular rules.

I also learned Japanese, I took some Japanese courses in college (also for the love of ACG and Vocaloid), so it was also taught (at least the 100 and 200 level courses) in English and the textbooks are in English. I felt that the Rosetta Stone style of just learning the language doesn't work with me.

Wahaha OP wrote on March 12, 2021 at 2:54 PM

Yeah, I also had this during formal education. It's just that I never paid attention. At least not in the languages. Was more of a math guy. That half a year I learned English privately was still during my schooldays, so my English teachers were somewhat surprised.

The only way I learned Japanese was by watching anime with subtitles. That has been enough to get at least 60-80% of movies watching them RAW. Still can't write or read, though. If only there was a way to look up Kanji within half a second, while being deprived of the copy/paste ability.

Then I'd just switch to Japanese subtitles, give it another half a year and would be fluent in Japanese, too. Well, maybe not fluent, but it would be enough.

I tried buying Kanji cards to memorize them, but this type of learning doesn't work for me. If there's no immediate use like understanding a movie, I won't bother to keep up the effort.

awdrifter wrote on March 12, 2021 at 3:32 PM

I feel like watching anime with dual language sub helps (though that's hard to come by). I have forgotten a lot of the Japanese grammar rules now, due to not using it for many years. If only I had tried to go to Japan right after graduating college and live there for a year or 2, that probably would've improved my Japanese and cemented the skills.

For learning kanji, I think the only way is to be exposed to it constantly, which is not easy if you don't live in Japan. Maybe there are some language learning apps that helps? Writing it out (even on a touch screen) should help with memorization.

Wahaha OP wrote on March 12, 2021 at 7:43 PM

There's no shortage of apps, but I can't stay motivated. Worse, if I learn these without context, it's less effective. I'd need to play a game that doesn't have too much Japanese and then look up things as I go, but alas, looking up Kanji is a pain in the butt.

awdrifter wrote on March 13, 2021 at 2:03 AM

That's true, it's hard to get motivated to keep learning/practicing a language.