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Rambler said () (edited )

Ohhh, good writeup, as always.

My biggest gripe and one of the reasons I sort of moved away from using it was simply how it handles DNS requests. I found that it was what was constantly changing my /etc/resolv.conf to use Cloudflare for DNS when not accessing Lokinet.

Can you confirm if that's still happening? Go to https://dnsleaktest.com/ or any other similar tool and let us know the output. What does your /etc/resolv.conf file show as your nameserver(s)?

Even when connecting to my own VPN service, etc. My DNS was leaking to Cloudflare when the Linux desktop client was installed. Tired of having to manually change it back and forth to access Lokinet and to access the clearnet without my DNS going to CloudFlare, I decided to just stop using it.

With that said, I hope they fix that. It may be isolated to Linux users only, I have no Windows devices to test. And I hope them success in what they want to achieve.

BUT, I couldn't shake the feeling that the goal was more to create a cryptocurrency than it was to create a network that solves any of the problems of pre-existing networks of similar fashion (Tor, I2P, Yggdrasil, ZeroNet, etc) and was put off by the high cost of running service nodes, registering domains, etc.

I run an I2P router, I run a Yggdrasil node, I'm spinning up some Tor stuff soon to test. I understand the concept of wanting to reduce the likelihood of sybill attacks by 'making it too expensive' for any single party or government to 'control the network' by deploying a large number of nodes to analyze traffic... But let's be real. Governments have unlimited budgets (not "really", but you know what I mean...) when it comes to things like 'cyber security' and 'national security'. Just because some script kiddie isn't going to spend tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars to deploy a bunch of relays, exits, or other network nodes to analyze traffic doesn't mean governments won't. They will. And they do this on other networks already, whether publicly or not. They'd be stupid not to. (Not that I condone it, but it's worth pointing out that it's very likely)

I'm not 100% dismissing it yet. I could be wrong on all fronts and five years from now I may be kicking myself for not buying Oxen when it was $0.28 or whatever it was when I first got interested in it. I might be upset that I dropped Loki support for this site, and it could potentially be the number one traffic source to Ramble. But, I sort of doubt it. This site got about the same amount of traffic from Lokinet that it did from Yggdrasil which is a network without all the suspected venture capitalist funding (No one would ever answer me who/how everything was being funded for Loki) and without the coin attached. I never cared enough to actually dig deep into the origin/funding behind the network.

Furthermore, it's a bit worrisome when their only online community is a very tiny subreddit ( https://old.reddit.com/r/oxen_io/ 588 subscribers). I think they have a Discord (eww, gross) and of course, Session. I had my own issues with Session but as far as I know it was never production ready and was still in beta so I can't really complain. I like the idea of Session more than I like the idea of another anonymity network that requires buying their crypto to do common things.

The network is a business first, and everything else is second.

That's the first time I've really gone on a Loki rant in public, but that's sort of how I've been feeling lately. Someone please come prove me wrong.

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Anon_i_mouss said ()

My biggest gripe and one of the reasons I sort of moved away from using it was     simply how it handles DNS requests. I found that it was what was constantly changing     my /etc/resolv.conf to use Cloudflare for DNS when not accessing Lokinet

Now you have the option to set the DNS of your choice even if Cloudflare was default. Probably in the next update quad9 will be the default.

BUT, I couldn't shake the feeling that the goal was more to create a cryptocurrency than it was to create a network that solves any of the problems of pre-existing networks of similar fashion (Tor, I2P, Yggdrasil, ZeroNet, etc) and was put off by the high cost of running service nodes, registering domains, etc.

The goal is to create a network that is sybil attack resistant based on Oxen's economy. That is something no other network has done. If blockchain was the best way to decentralize anything and lokinet depends upon oxen blockchain for validating service nodes and for ons functionality, lokinet is doing good.

I run an I2P router, I run a Yggdrasil node, I'm spinning up some Tor stuff soon to test. I understand the concept of wanting to reduce the likelihood of sybill attacks by 'making it too expensive' for any single party or government to 'control the network' by deploying a large number of nodes to analyze traffic... But let's be real. Governments have unlimited budgets (not "really", but you know what I mean...) when it comes to things like 'cyber security' and 'national security'. Just because some script kiddie isn't going to spend tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars to deploy a bunch of relays, exits, or other network nodes to analyze traffic doesn't mean governments won't. They will. And they do this on other networks already, whether publicly or not. They'd be stupid not to. (Not that I condone it, but it's worth pointing out that it's very likely)

Budget does not matter. At some point service node registration will not just be too expensive but practically impossible.

About the funding, the network is funded by the service nodes run by the team.

I like the idea of Session more than I like the idea of another anonymity network that requires buying their crypto to do common things

Running a hidden service or using it does not require oxen. I doubt if you were the one who actually setup a SNApp for Ramble since you do not know this basic thing. And nothing is "their crypto". oxen is decentralized.

That's the first time I've really gone on a Loki rant in public, but that's sort of how I've been feeling lately. Someone please come prove me wrong

Read above pls.

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Rambler said ()

Perhaps things have changed. I'll re-review it in time. I previously had ramble as a snapp but I had no Oxen at the time, so someone else bought the domain (which, at the time, was more expensive than a normal .com or TLD).

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Anon_i_mouss said ()

Since Lokinet is an implementation of LLARP, OPTF's goal is not to create just a network for anonymity but an infrastructure on which this network will exist.

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Anon_i_mouss said ()

DNS leak could also be a browser specific issue. And the article is over 80% wrong. About sybil attacks, lokinet is sybil resistant not because it becomes costly to setup more nodes but it becomes impossible to do so as $OXEN gets locked up in service nodes. Lokinet is also receiving lots of updates so all I have to say is that it is an amazing technology that is under steady development. Do not leave it.

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Rambler said () (edited )

I'll circle back to in time, I am sure. I like tinkering with these network projects and the fact I can't do that with Lokinet without having to go through the hassle (for me) of acquiring enough $OXEN to contribute resources to the network is a turn off. That's my major complaint. I own a small web hosting business, I have servers and resources available to donate to projects that I care about but the barrier to lend Loki a hand is too high for me right now. I'll stick with supporting other networks like Yggdrasil and I2P for the time being. With that said, if someone else wants to run a node/peer/service/whatever and stake the Oxen for it, I'll donate a server just to help strengthen the network a little more.

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dontvisitmyintentions said ()

Reddit- and discord-only is a deal-breaker. If I wanted to get or give help, I have every expectation I'd be banned without recourse or reason, and I likely wouldn't be able to tell whether the project guys did it or not. (I assume telegram is similar, since it's not open.)

Also, their rebranding is just flashily confusing enough to turn me off. "Oxen is many things" and using a generic noun for a name reinforces my impression that they are going for branding at the expense of comprehensibility.

This is what happens when a project goes after r/bitcoin instead of IRC.

Also, I looked at what it does to dns, and I'm not impressed with how much it touches, invoking resolveconf and systemd-resolve. It seems they aren't concerned with leaking data outside of a closed browser, like the Tor Browser is set up to be.

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